Marie-Antoinette and Axel von Fersen

Too often in the many articles about Marie-Antoinette that have surfaced in the last year due to the Coppola film, Count Axel von Fersen is referred to as the "queen's lover" or as her "probable lover." It is repeatedly disregarded that there is not a scrap of reliable historical evidence that Count Fersen and Marie-Antoinette were anything but friends, and that he was as much her husband’s friend as he was hers. People are free to speak of Louis XV and Madame de Pompadour as “lovers” since they openly lived together for many years. But to speak that way of Marie-Antoinette, who was known for her purity among her circle of close friends, of whom a courtier said: "Her soul was as white as her face," (Vincent Cronin's Louis and Antoinette) who lost her life because she chose to stay at her husband’s side, is the height of irresponsibility.

The Swedish nobleman was in the service of his sovereign King Gustavus III and Count Fersen’s presence at the French court needs to be seen in the light of that capacity. The Swedish King was a devoted friend of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette and Gustavus, even more than the queen’s Austrian relatives, worked to aid the King and Queen of France in their time of trouble. Fersen was the go-between in the various top secret plans to help Louis XVI regain control of his kingdom and escape from the clutches of his political enemies. The diplomatic intrigues that went on behind the scenes are more interesting than any imaginary romance. (The queen’s relationship with her husband is more interesting as well.) However, books and movies continue to add this sensationalism to the queen’s life, as if anything could be more sensational than the reality. Serious modern and contemporary scholars, however, such as Paul and Pierrette Girault de Coursac, Hilaire Belloc, Nesta Webster, Simone Bertiere, Philippe Delorme, Jean Chalon, Desmond Seward, and Simon Schama are unanimous in saying that there is no conclusive evidence to prove that Marie-Antoinette violated her marriage vows by dallying with Count Fersen.

The origins of the legend of Marie-Antoinette’s affair with Fersen began not with her revolutionary foes, who certainly would have picked up on anything of that nature to discredit the queen at her trial. Fersen’s name came up at the trial only in regard to the fact that he had driven the royal family’s coach out of Paris in June 1791 as they tried to escape. It was a courtier, the Comte de Saint-Priest, who made insinuations about the queen and Fersen in his memoirs, probably to cover the humiliation that Fersen had slept with Madame de Saint-Priest, his wife. Madame de la Tour du Pin, a former lady-in-waiting of the Queen, in her memoirs mentions that “the Count de Fersen, said to be queen Marie-Antoinette’s lover, also came to see us everyday.” She says this in a paragraph about her childhood where she is discussing the various men who, according to gossip, were “considered” to be in love with with her mother, Madame Dillon. So the Fersen affair is lumped in with what must be seen as idle rumors.

As Jean Chalon points out in his biography Chere Marie-Antoinette, Fersen, who had many mistresses, saw the queen as an angel, to whom he offered reverent and chaste homage. According to Chalon, Marie-Antoinette knew about sex only through conjugal love, where she found her “happiness,” her bonheur essentiel, as she wrote to her mother. If there had been any cause for concern about Count Fersen’s presence at the French court as regards the queen’s reputation, the Austrian ambassador Count Mercy-Argenteau would surely have mentioned it in one of the reams of letters to Marie-Antoinette’s mother Empress Maria Teresa, to whom he passed on every detail of the young queen’s life. Count Mercy had spies whom he paid well to gather information, but Fersen was not worth mentioning. Neither is he mentioned in a romantic way by other people close to the queen in their memoirs, such as her maid Madame Campan and the Baron de Besenval, a close family friend.

Didishroom wrote:I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I just wanted to add a few points.

In all the time that they knew each other preceding the Revolution not one of them ever wrote each other a letter or inquired about how the other was doing.

The only time they could have 'known' each other was that one night he spent at the palace in Paris. Now I know everyone likes to imagine their 'affair' as some kind of 18th century bodice ripper fantasy with a handsome man in a ponytail ravashing a queen with pearly white skin, heavy rouge, a contrasting beauty mark and cleavage bursting from her tight corset...except by this time MA was heavy, her hair was grey and falling out with her body having experienced at least six pregnancies, loss of two children and by accounts she apparently looked almost 60....yeahhhh.......not to degrade her Majesty but the picture I have doesn't match the hot and heavy scenario others have cooked up...


p.s. All biographers mention how MA and Louis were constantly guarded at the Tuilierries-even in their bedrooms. How were they ever able to meet with Ferson? Was he snuck in? Was he formally greeted and announced as a royal guest to their Majesties? If his visits were always secret how did he sneak in? And not to play Devil's Advocate-but wouldn't this at least give cover to a one night stand?

p.s.p.s. I do not for one second believe the Ferson myth.

Kaitlyn Lauren wrote:Thank you!

She didn't need this passionate relationship with Fersen. Why does everyone assume she had no sexual fulfillment from her husband? Not that she was expected to and I get the feeling that didn't matter so much to her. But she could have and probably did.

I agree with Chalon that she only knew about sex through "conjugal love" and didn't need this other, "more handsome"  and expertise man to come around and show her what physical relations between a man and woman should be like.

Didishroom wrote:Anyone remember anything more about him?

Elena wrote:Even if the romantic words were absolutely proved to be genuinely penned by the Queen, it must be remembered that she also wrote loving words to both of her friends Madame de Lamballe (Chalon, p. 349) and Madame de Polignac, calling each of them "mon cher coeur" that is "my dear heart" and saying such things as "je vous embrasse très fort" which means "I kiss you hard." Such was her manner of expression with those of whom she was fond. It must also be kept in mind that Marie-Antoinette absolutely needed the help for the royal cause that only Fersen could give in the outside world; it should not be surprising if her words to him were especially tender, as we are given to believe from Patarin and Nachef's interpretation.

Elena wrote:So boring, so fatiguing.  And Fersen was  fascinating man in his own right. His relationship with Eleonore was very passionate. It is so foolish for people to insist that he existed only for the Queen.

Sophie wrote:

Elena wrote:So boring, so fatiguing.  And Fersen was  fascinating man in his own right. His relationship with Eleonore was very passionate. It is so foolish for people to insist that he existed only for the Queen.

And people don't know that many "facts" that are used to prove the whole love affair are simply not true. I often read in serious historical works that Antoinette fell in love with Fersen in the '70s/80s. Where is this information coming from? But people consider it as fact rather than interpretation, because it's written by a well-known historian in a thick book. I think this is the weakest point of the whole "Fersen affair": there's no proof that Antoinette loved him more than her other friends before the 1790s. On the contrary, her closest confidant was Gabrielle de Polignac, whom she shared her time and wrote tender letters. And even if she grew closer to Fersen during the Revolution, and loved him more than before, it was the last thing for her to do to get involved in a passionate love affair when her family's throne and existence was in danger.

Didishroom wrote:Let's not also forget that MA's daughter, Marie Therese, was close with Ferson before his murder. I doubt someone as morally upright and protective of her parents' reputations would have been so receptive of him if there were actual rumors and murmurs concerning the relationship.

Elena wrote:Yes! Especially when he spent all his free time in the arms of another woman!

Sophie wrote:

Elena wrote:Yes! Especially when he spent all his free time in the arms of another woman!

Eleonore is a very interesting woman. She is often seen as Fersen's "stop-gap" while he was away from his true love, Antoinette. And it can be true in some ways - especially if we believe in my theory that Fersen was in a platonic love with the Queen but was never really allowed to fulfill his desires for her. Eleonore was his real mistress, not some angelic figure he could serve and love from a distance. But it's not so well-known anymore that, according to Fersen and Antoinette's correspondence, Antoinette sent messages and gifts to Eleonore and her husband. Or that the Craufurds were supporters from the background, and they probably helped Fersen a lot in his political and diplomatic issues, like the organization of the flight to Montmédy.

Didishroom wrote:Wait, what? Why was MA sending Eleanor and her HUSBAND gifts??

Elena wrote:Fersen claimed that the queen had once used his seal on her letters. His seal had the motto: Tutto a te mi guida. “Everything leads me to thee.” Nesta Webster claims that the Queen had also used the seal of Quintin Crauford in her correspondence – using other people’s seals was a subterfuge employed in sensitive diplomatic correspondence, but Fersen thought the words were meant as a message for himself.