Marie-Antoinette in Art

First topic message reminder :

Here is a picture I found on Anna Amber's site, along with some interesting information.http://vivelareine.tumblr.com/post/11584753502

Portrait of Marie Antoinette, Queen of France (1755-1793), three-quarter-length, seated, at the Conciergerie, Paris, in mourning, with a cameo pendant portraying the Dauphin, holding a life of Mary, Queen of Scots, a bust of Louis XVI and the Testament of 23 December 1792 on the draped table beside inscribed ‘HIS.DE LA.M. DE STUAR[T]’ (lower centre, on the book)

I never knew she was reading a book about Mary Queen of Scots.

http://www.rubylane.com/item/213082-RL10-020/French-Miniature-Painting-Marie-Antoinette Here is an amazing painting of Louis XVI, Marie-Antoinette with their three oldest children. Louis-Charles is the smaller child in a dress.  (I was not able to post the picture so click on the link.

Also, for those interested, here is my Marie-Antoinette board on Pinterest.
http://pinterest.com/maryeileenr/marie-antoinette/

Box with miniature of the Queen
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=593204967389563&set=a.593204360722957.1073741885.586027988107261&type=1&theater

Originally from Madame Guillotine.

http://pinterest.com/pin/404057397789007027/
It is amazing how hairstyles shot up in the mid-1770's.

Elena wrote:Here is an amazing painting of Louis XVI, Marie-Antoinette with their three oldest children. Louis-Charles is the smaller child in a dress.

Oh, I've just realized how cute they all look like together! A quite normal family with some "abnormal" responsibilities that bittered they daily life...

http://tiny-librarian.tumblr.com/post/63947628407/portrait-of-louis-xvi-marie-antoinette-and-the


Another rare picture of the entire royal family. The Queen has her hands clasped like a Madonna.

Elena, I love that last one. It really does look like a religious painting of some sort.

Really lovely! Now here is a piece of massive stupidity:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/10/23/holly-marie-armishaw-reflective-surfaces-with-conceptual-depth/
They think they are being ironic to show Marie-Antoinette reading Rousseau! Well guess what! Marie-Antoinette DID read Rousseau, and even went to visit his grave! 

HOW IRONIC!!  Yes, MA read Rousseau. They even have her doing so in the Coppola film.

From Vive la Reine:
http://vivelareine.tumblr.com/post/65280415234

Well admittedly, the author of the article adds the caveat that "Whether or not the real Marie-Antoinette had anything to do with Rousseau is irrelevant." She acknowledges the possibility. And I'd agree with her that Antoinette's early fascination with Rousseau is pretty ironic, considering his egalitarian theories and how he inspired the revolutionaries to, y'know, revolutionize...

Yes. I think what the Queen admired was his back-to-nature philosophy and his ideas on education. But, yes, it is ironic. The real Rousseau gave all of his own children to an orphanage so he would not have to take care of them.

Yeah, you dun gotta accept every one of a philosopher's tenets to enjoy him. I enjoy some tidbits of Rousseau myslef but I'm more of a John Locke girl overall. Hmmm... Maybe some Montesquieu. Hook me up with some Bastiat too.

Though I guess we're starting to leave the enlightenment now.

heh, all this mixing-and-matching of philosophers. I'm just thinking of the Lou Bega song "Mambo five" with philospher names instead of ladies.


A little bit of Montesquieu in my life
A little bit of Bastiat by my side
A little bit of Rousseau is all I need
A little bit of Voltaire is what I see
A little bit of de Sade in the sun
A little bit of Franklin all night long
A little bit of Jefferson here I am
A little bit of Locke makes me your girl

*cough* I got off topic.

Look! A Marie-Antoinette paper doll I found!


I got it fromhttp://unspeakablevice.tumblr.com/post/65479057549/french-revolution-paper-dolls-not-mine-sourcebut they got it from a google file dump and I know the google file dumper got it from somewhere else so I dunno what the original source is

Delightful! 

*off topic*

Bunnies wrote:...how he inspired the revolutionaries to, y'know, revolutionize...

I think the real Rousseau, if he hadn't died in 1778, would have killed himself if he had found out what the revolutioners made out from his theories. He also declared that some of his ideas, for example the "eternal peace" in Europe, can only be achieved with terrible and inhuman methods. (I can't quote it word by word, because I read it in Hungarian...  )

In general, I don't find ironic that the Enlightenment philosophy (not only Rousseau but others, too) affected many different people of many different social groups, who had many different political views. Our totally conservative and obnoxious Hungarian nobles, who wanted Joseph II not to prescribe some decrees that might have made the poor peasants' lives better, also cited Rousseau. This is not ironic anymore, this is sarcastic  So, Enlightenment wasn't a privilege of revolutionary thinkers, it was simply the age they lived in. Everyone was enlighted, they only interpreted the new views in another way.

(And if the photographer wanted to mock Antoinette simply because she's reading, it's another fail - she also read David Hume's historical works, according to Charles Duke Yonge.)

*on topic*

Did you all see the illustrations of a certain Victoria Holt novel that have spread in the internet? I love them!  

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1385653_10202432064512257_300890343_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1380353_10202432064992269_334719472_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1385128_10202432065272276_1193770781_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1395271_10202432065392279_1864402566_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/999783_10202432065232275_852806588_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/947301_10202432065312277_738356425_n.jpg

Bunnies, are you referring to The Queen's Confession?  I borrowed a copy from my high school library.  It was a hardback edition and could've passed as a mass paperback.  The cover on it, to me, screamed '70s!  

Sophie wrote:*off topic*

Bunnies wrote:...how he inspired the revolutionaries to, y'know, revolutionize...

I think the real Rousseau, if he hadn't died in 1778, would have killed himself if he had found out what the revolutioners made out from his theories. He also declared that some of his ideas, for example the "eternal peace" in Europe, can only be achieved with terrible and inhuman methods. (I can't quote it word by word, because I read it in Hungarian...  )\

I don't think Rousseau would've killed himself, but then I don't really think the thread titled "Marie Antoiette In Art" is a proper place to have a throwndown over an analysis of a philosopher's tenets. But perhaps this is just a sign of our variance in perspectives. I have a lower opinion of Rousseau and a higher opinion of the Revolution than most members in the forum so it's possible I'm just averaging the pair out. If we'd really like to discuss it though, maybe we could make another thread? I don't want to clog this one with off-topic jabber.  

Bunnies, are you referring to The Queen's Confession?  I borrowed a copy from my high school library.  It was a hardback edition and could've passed as a mass paperback.  The cover on it, to me, screamed 70s

Huh, am I? Or are you talking to Sophie? I'm just jabbering about nothing, really, same as always. If I accidentally said something relevant then...Well, even a broken clock is still right twice a day, isn't it?

Bunnies wrote: If we'd really like to discuss it though, maybe we could make another thread? I don't want to clog this one with off-topic jabber.  

I'm excessively curious about your opinion, so I would like to have a Rousseau topic under "Books and Movies", for instance... but as usual, I'm not sure if I can present some qualitative contrary opinions... I mean, I like Rousseau, but it was not yesterday when I read him (or others about his works) for the last time, so I'm not prepared enough for a real discussion...  But please, I want to read about how a true revolutioner as you sees Rousseau!  

Huh, am I? Or are you talking to Sophie?

Yes, I suppose it was for me  Yes, the title is The Queen's Confessions, but I know nothing about the book. Whether it's good or bad, if I look at these cute illustrations, I'm sure it was worth publishing it!

Mata Hari wrote:Really lovely! Now here is a piece of massive stupidity:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/10/23/holly-marie-armishaw-reflective-surfaces-with-conceptual-depth/
They think they are being ironic to show Marie-Antoinette reading Rousseau! Well guess what! Marie-Antoinette DID read Rousseau, and even went to visit his grave! 

I just want to clarify my meaning. When I said "massive stupidity" I was referring to the article, not to the photograph. The photographs by Holly Marie Armishaw are masterpieces of poignant historical recreation. I like the above photo very much! 

Thank you for making that clear, Mata. Ms. Armishaw wrote to me, and was perturbed by what she perceived to be criticism of her work. I understand her feelings. I, too, like the photo very much and find Ms. Armishaw's work to be brilliant. I welcome her as a member of this Forum. I wish also to be clear that my problem is with the article, not with her work.
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/10/23/holly-marie-armishaw-reflective-surfaces-with-conceptual-depth/

The article appears to assume that Marie-Antoinette never read Rousseau and was indifferent to the plight of the people. Ms. Armishaw's research was quite extensive and so that is not the meaning she meant to convey. I am personally struck by the beauty of the photo..

Elena wrote: I wish also to be clear that my problem is with the article, not with her work.

Oops, I also wrote "photographer" in a previous critical comment. I'm terribly sorry if I hurt Ms Armishaw's feelings!  Of course, her photo is an artwork that can be interpreted in many ways, and it's not her fault if some "interpreters" lack some basic knowledge when coming across her works. The photo in itself is a wonderful occasion to arouse some interest, or even the desire for research, in some people who in the end realize their misconceptions about the "stupid and indifferent" Antoinette. So again, sorry for the misunderstanding!

I don't even have a problem with the article. But maybe I'm misunderstanding it? The author expressed surprise that she saw Antoinette with a book on philosophy. Most people would be. While we know otherwise, the average Jacques isn't going to be aware of Antoinette's nuanced literary tastes. I don't think expressing surprise that Antoinette read Rousseau is necessarily an ignoramus. I expressed surprise when I learned Hitler was a vegetarian or that Anne Boleyn was religious. These things are shocking right out of the gate. And the author never says the photograph is inaccurate, just that it challenges the viewer to "reconsider" their "contemporary idea of the historic figure." And it does.

Good point. Thanks to you all for a great discussion. Please do start a thread about Marie-Antoinette and Rousseau if you would like. 

Sophie wrote:

Elena wrote: I wish also to be clear that my problem is with the article, not with her work.

Oops, I also wrote "photographer" in a previous critical comment. I'm terribly sorry if I hurt Ms Armishaw's feelings!  Of course, her photo is an artwork that can be interpreted in many ways, and it's not her fault if some "interpreters" lack some basic knowledge when coming across her works. The photo in itself is a wonderful occasion to arouse some interest, or even the desire for research, in some people who in the end realize their misconceptions about the "stupid and indifferent" Antoinette. So again, sorry for the misunderstanding!

That is kind of you, Sophie. I feel very bad as well.

http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2014/03/archduchess-antonia.html


I think this is a portrait of Marie-Antoinette before her marriage since she is shown with the archducal crown.

Here is  a picture of the metal frame of the archducal crown, sans gems. http://tiny-librarian.tumblr.com/post/79470671847/metal-frame-of-the-austrian-archducal-coronet-used



Here is an article about the work of Elisabeth Vigée-Le Brun at the National Gallery in Washington, DC. http://queensransom.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/the-national-gallery-of-art-and-vigee-le-brun/

I don't remember seeing this portrait before. http://vivelareine.tumblr.com/post/79402914556