Tea at Trianon Forum
Always be polite. Courtesy is required of you.
Tea with the Queen
Latest topics
» Marie-Antoinette and Axel von Fersen
Today at 5:45 pm by Sophie

» MA and her siblings
Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:01 am by Didishroom

» Marie-Antoinette in Art
Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:39 pm by Sophie

» Richard III
Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:14 pm by Elena

» The Meaning of "Mora", the ship Matilda of Flanders gave William the Conqueror
Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:46 pm by Susan Abernethy

» Jeanne de Valois, Queen of France and Duchess of Berri
Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:08 pm by Susan Abernethy

» Marie Antoinette Trilogy - Juliet Grey
Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:16 pm by Bunnies

» Isabella Stewart Gardner: the Lady, the Legend and the Legacy
Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:31 am by Susan Abernethy

» Archduke Johann and Anna Plochl
Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:38 am by Sophie

Who is online?
In total there is 1 user online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 1 Guest

None

[ View the whole list ]


Most users ever online was 54 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:17 pm
Social bookmarking

Social bookmarking Digg  Social bookmarking Delicious  Social bookmarking Reddit  Social bookmarking Stumbleupon  Social bookmarking Slashdot  Social bookmarking Furl  Social bookmarking Yahoo  Social bookmarking Google  Social bookmarking Blinklist  Social bookmarking Blogmarks  Social bookmarking Technorati  

Bookmark and share the address of Tea at Trianon Forum on your social bookmarking website

Banner art courtesy of The Graphics Fairy.

wealth left by marie antoinette

View previous topic View next topic Go down

wealth left by marie antoinette

Post  monica17 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:25 pm

Does anyone know how much wealth was left by Marie Antoinette at the time of her death?

I know there's been mention of money and jewels sent to Brussels c/o her hairdresser Monsieur Leonard and subsequently turned over to her sister Mimi and their nephew Emperor Franz. Any approximate amounts or worth? Also, was she supposed to get back her dowry upon widowhood?

Any replies would be very much appreciated!

monica17

Posts: 12
Join date: 2012-07-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: wealth left by marie antoinette

Post  Elena on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:46 pm

That is a good question which I will have to research at some point to get even an approximate answer. study The Revolutionary government and Napoleon depleted the resources of the state and of the French people that I don't know of anything much was left of what would have been Marie-Antoinette's dowry. When Marie-Antoinette's daughter was restored to France she came into possession of the crown jewels that were left (and used by the Bonapartes.) Also she already had in her possession many of her mother's jewels, such as some of her diamonds, although much were lost and scattered. As first lady of France, she had access to Petit Trianon and Saint Cloud, properties owned outright by the Queen, but whether she had a legal ownership of those places, I don't think so. She had much of her own property which was given her during the Restoration, such as the estate at Villeneuve l'Etang which adjoined the grounds of Saint Cloud. If Marie-Therese inherited her mother's dowry she was so generous in alms-giving that she probably gave most of it away. I am just guessing.

_________________
Je pardonne à tous mes ennemis le mal qu’ils m’ont fait.

Elena
Admin

Posts: 1115
Join date: 2011-10-18
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon

View user profile http://www.emvidal.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: wealth left by marie antoinette

Post  monica17 on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:48 am

Thank you!

I remember reading that Louis XVIII claimed that MA's dowry was not paid (or fully paid) and he was insisting to Franz I/II that it be given to Marie-Therese-Charlotte. I highly doubt it, though. The non-payment of the dowry did not seem to come up before, and Franz Stephan left very substantial personal funds, which was partly used to finance some of his children's marriage expenses (as agreed upon by Empress Maria Theresa and Joseph II).

Am I correct in assuming that dowries were given back to the royal widow or her child/ren? Also that Petite Trianon and Chateau de St. Cloud were "given" to MA but she did not have legal ownership of them and therefore the same could not be owned by MTC?

Any other information on MA's (personal) wealth would be most appreciated! I'm trying to trace the private properties of MA, Maria Carolina (seems none) and Maria Amalia.


monica17

Posts: 12
Join date: 2012-07-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: wealth left by marie antoinette

Post  Elena on Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:44 pm

Great points. Here is the incident to which you are referring, quoted from Daudet's biography of MTC:

Bourbons of France the marriage of the Due
d'Angouleme and Madame Roy ale could not take
place without the consent and assistance of the
House of Austria, to whose care the princess's fortune
had been entrusted. It consisted of a sum of five
hundred and forty-nine thousand Viennese florins,
which, in June 1791, at the time of the flight to
Varennes, Marie-Antoinette had contrived to send
to her brother the Emperor, through the intervention
of the Comte de Mercy. In addition to this capital,
which had been converted into Netherlands stock,
there was the interest arising from it, at the rate of
four per cent. On the Emperor alone it depended
whether this interest should be calculated from the
day when the Court of Vienna received the money,
or only from the month of October 1793, the date of
the Queen's death.

On the other hand there was a conviction in the
King's circle that the Austrian Treasury had never
paid Marie- Antoinette's dowry. 1 In that case a sum
of " two hundred thousand golden sun-crowns " 2

1 This question was not settled. Austria refused to pay, on the
grounds that the dowry had already been paid, and supported the
assertion by producing a perfectly correct receipt. The King's party
declared that it was a fictitious receipt, and had only been given to
save the Austrian Court from an awkward position, since at the time
it was too deeply in debt to be able to pay. To this it was objected
that the dowries of princesses were never paid. " In the position to
which Madame Royale is reduced, 1 '' said d'Avaray, "it is ignoble,
and disingenuous, and indeed unjust, to make use of such a plea to
rob her of a patrimony that her unparalleled misfortunes have made a
necessity for her support, and for that of the prince -she is to marry."
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/ernest-daudet/madame-royale-daughter-of-louis-xvi-and-marie-antoinette-her-youth-and-marriag-hci/page-13-madame-royale-daughter-of-louis-xvi-and-marie-antoinette-her-youth-and-marriag-hci.shtml

Dowries were supposed to be for the support of a woman in case her husband died and also was there for her to leave to her children. Often dowries were not paid in full. Katherine of Aragon suffered great poverty in her widowhood as Princess of Wales because her dowry had never been paid. Sometimes dowries were not given back as in the case of Elizabeth of Hungary.

Marie-Antoinette had the keys to Petit Trianon and may have held the deed as well. She certainly did hold the deed to Saint-Cloud which angered some people since a Queen of France had not owned so much property in her own name since the middle ages.

_________________
Je pardonne à tous mes ennemis le mal qu’ils m’ont fait.

Elena
Admin

Posts: 1115
Join date: 2011-10-18
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon

View user profile http://www.emvidal.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: wealth left by marie antoinette

Post  monica17 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:33 am

thank you again, elena.

so in addition to being entitled to her dowry once widowed, i recall reading that MA's marriage contract also provided for a widow's income. that's what what confused me. however, her sister maria amalia appears to have asked for her dowry back from the spanish bourbons - which, somehow, her son louis became responsible for - so it's clear that the archduchesses' marriage contracts stipulated the same.

it's just too bad that MTC did not seem to inherit the property at st. cloud from her mother. or did she? her cousins on the bourbon-parma side managed to inherit and hold on to (and was duly compensated by the French government later on) at least 1 property in france, the chateau de chambord.

the married archduchess of that generation that did not seem to have passed any property/money was maria carolina. or at least, nothing much was written about it. amalia's grandchildren inherited her estate, which appears to have consisted of monetary claims and country estates/castles and at least 1 villa in parma, among others, while the line belonging to mimi's adopted son and nephew archduke charles was very wealthy due to investments made in their duchy of teschen, presumably from what mimi & her husband left their heir.

monica17

Posts: 12
Join date: 2012-07-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: wealth left by marie antoinette

Post  Elena on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:17 am

St. Cloud was used as the summer residence for the French court during the Restoration, so even if it was in MTC's name it was not really "hers."

_________________
Je pardonne à tous mes ennemis le mal qu’ils m’ont fait.

Elena
Admin

Posts: 1115
Join date: 2011-10-18
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon

View user profile http://www.emvidal.com/

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum